A Platform To Know Truth About Social Justice In India.
Saturday, December 23, 2006
Please Ask The Truth
In this blog We will try to find out truth behind every issues effecting our society. Please start this chain, with asking first your question.
With best wishes Fight 4 Right (A Initiative to Right)
4 comments:
Anonymous
said...
To Fight for Right and its members: Why did you stop "Justice Should Be For All , Not Only for Media Dri... " on 16 of May 2006? For the sake of the (Tell me) truth (India) I will put my comment here. If there is a problem with the server, please, correct it and put the comment in the proper place. Thank you.
THE COMMENT:
To 4d-don and all
4d-don, in answer to your comment of 14th of May:
4d...“One of the main reasons con-men succeed is that once taken, the "mark" (victim) is ashamed to admit that he/she was taken in. The first step to healing and becoming free again is to admit that one has been taken in.” To me this statement of you includes the meaning, that you assume that the writer of the comment you (sometimes) relate to is necessarly an abhyasi of SRCM. Or what is the good of general - unrelated - statements? Of course all people have to share your personal opinion not only of the organization, its members ect, but of everthing in what YOU BELIEVE. Very black and white: the good bloggers (http://4d-don.blogspot.com et. al.) and the bad SRCM, P. R. ect. Very “spiritual”, too, if the world is divided in saviours à la 4d-don and Shashwat on one side and sheep which need their help on the other side....
4d...Then, one can "expose" the con-men or women (in Sahaj Marg) and warn help others not get "sucked in", YOU state that it is a fact, that SRCM is a negative (!) cult (It is well-known, that Christianity was a cult in its beginning, too). The question is, if this is YOUR OPINION or if it is a fact. As long as you say “It is MY opinion...” or “It is MY experience...” you are free to do so. I would suggest you allow the reader to make his/her own conclusions. But it seems you think you take it for granted that YOU are the only thinking person, YOU KNOW (even) the truth, others dont’t know anything at all. At least the members of SRCM are all manipulated “victims“. Well, you are generous enough to suppose that they are at least able to recognize their situation.
4d...“...and those are the "truly spiritual" people, the Saviours of their people, the Messiahs of the Masses.” If you hold Shashwat for a truly spiritual person, a saviour of people, a Messiah of the Masses, it is YOUR very personal OPINION. I for myself have to say I can’t agree with this. For my opinion he is neither a compassionate person, nor able of logical thinking. For your attention I repeat two sayings of Shashwat, your saviour: “Without love Shashwat/pls note, i cannot love everyone, till i have learned to love those who love me , if i say love then i m fooling, and i don't want to fool people coz i don't want to be fooled either.” And: “According to Chari's Sahaj Marg, divinity that all cult members look for is becoming similar to their master, Chari claims that Babuji is his master, at the same time, he is not similar to Babuji in the sense that he is not able to talk to ghosts as babuji use to do, hence he is not same as babuji, therefore he is not a master of Sahaj Marg linage, this exposes another lie of this group. !!”
4d...“The average person, once saved, goes on his/her merry way and is not concerned about his/her neighbour.” What is the use of your speaking about “average people” in general (if there is something like ‘average people’ at all) ect. ? I think it would be more useful, if you tried to refer with your writings to the comment. Again: You know the person who wrote the comment? You know (by one comment on the net) that this person goes on his/her way and isn’t concerned about his/her neigbour? It seems to me you hold only yourself, Shashwat and a few others for intelligent and comitted people. You may be committed, but it is your arrogance which makes you believe others are not.
4d...“That is not the case with Shashwat, once he realized the "con game", he did not merely go on with his life but shouldered the task and the "duty" of warning the ones who come behind him.“ For me this isn’t a warning it is agitation. The substance of it is very questionable. (The behaviour of Shashwat and his way of speech are not questionable. - Everybody can see his manners and his loving and brotherly attitude in the net, especially on his own blog.)
4d...”That is the person I want to be "behind" on the highway of life so that I can trust that if there is a danger on the road (fallen tree, rock, hole etc..) that this person will not simply avoid the danger and not stop to warn me. “ I was reminded of the example of an accident. A person who comes for help - or for warning the following people - is of much use, if he/she acts with consideration, wíth a level-headed assessment of the situation and the ability to calme the situation for the sake of true aid (research, constructive criticism ect.). If the person behaves (like Shashwat) without any selfcontrol he/she is not only without any use for others, but endangers not only himself/herself, but the whole matter (and in this way others, too).
4d...I wish the world was that "noble" and if that is a "sickness" then I wish it on all of us” If you hold Shashwat’s actions for noble ones, it is your personal opinion. If you wish it on you, you are free to do so. But, please, leave the decision to others if they really wish this sickness on them.
4d...“But I believe that that sort of caring about one's neighbour is the Brotherly Love that Sahaj Marg talks about but does not deliver. As a matter of fact, Sahaj Marg would try and stop this HERO from carying out his duty and his destiny.” Do you speak out of experiences? Or do you speak from hersay. For example from a 14-years-abhyasi Shashwat? I agree with you, that it seems, that the brotherly love, that Sahaj Marg talks about, it does not deliver: If I see the “brotherly love” of a person named Shashwat and take it as a result of 14 years practice in SRCM you are truely right. Shashwat ,YOUR HERO.
4d...“Maybe it's time for the "meditators" to get up of their butts and stop gazing at their navels and see the state of the Real World, specially the real Organization that they support and see how "divided" it really is.” Please, relate to the comment (see above).
4d...“Sprituality UNITE, Religion DIVIDES” This is your personal opinion. I don’t agree with it. I know (religious and “other”) people who even don’t have an idea about the meaning of the word “spirituality” who always try to “unite”, and I know so-called spiritual people who are not very “uniting”. Concerning you, you yourself must know to what you want to belong.
4d...“What happens after insults...” ....everybody can see it on this and (some other) blog(s)...
4d...“...and the threats of lawsuits and "worse", is it WAR? or CRIMINALITY? We now know that SRCM is capable of such "tactics" but is it "SPIRITUALITY" or is it really just "SPIRITUALISM"? I can’t see the relation to the comment.
4d... ”...IS Sahaj Marg really a modified Raja Yoga? How modified? We know of the Yamas and the tapas being eliminated. We can tell by the level of intellect in Sahaj Marg adherents that the MIND is not "controlled" so it must be another YOGA and not RAJA! We can tell by the level of arrogance and ignorance that Spirit is still a "slave to the desires" as they so foolishly repeat every day. (see above)
4d... “NO WONDER they are so HEALTHY and UNITED! NOT!!” There could be a constructive dialogue........ But of course, if the others are sheep, victims ect. - Who is worthy enough to talk to you, 4d-don? ....
(Before I read your comment) I thought not to forget to let Elodie know how grateful I am to her for her publication of the material of the Sufi origin of SRCM (Or who did the research on the origin of SRCM?). Stating facts. DOING ones duty. Very in silence. (The fighting came with others (men).) In my opinion the recognition is hers.
4d-don, I am sorry to say it, in my opinion you yourself don’t serve the cause for which you took up the job.
And I am able of understanding people who think it is wasting time to be part of this “discussion” and therefore leave the scene.
Finally - Where has Navneet gone? Answering only questions he appreciates, believing it serves his purpose, is nothing.
The purpose of this comment: I don’t want to leave the scene without expressing my disgust about what I saw and experienced here.
IM MY OPINION ORIGINALLY POSITIVE EFFORTS FAILED MISERABLY. I ASK EVERYBODY TO THINK ABOUT THE REASONS.
To "Fight for Right", this means the persons Richa Kapoor, Ajayarana, Puneet Wadhwa, Varun Chowdry, Akash Jain:
You all together signed the article "Justice Should Be For All, Not Only for Media Driven Society" on this blog. There is only one more article you did the same (signing "Fight for right"). The other articles however were signed by one member of your group (one by one). Strangely enough the only article which seems to be of any interest of the public is the article "Justice...". You started your blog on december 23, 2006. Since january 7, 2007 or rather since the beginning of january 2007 there were no more articles put by you on the net. Are there no more "difficult" cases now at the Indian Courts? The article, in question I complained the blogger not working, is now working again.
For my opinion this blog in general is a very dubious one. If you like to answer my comment for dispelling my reservations I would be glad.
Good for you to challenge my words... You somehow missed my "humour" and my "tongue in cheek", specially with the "Master" statement linked to Shashwat... lol ;-))... I think Shashwat is very brave to do what he does in the manner he does, and that is now recorded... It is our safety to speak all our thoughts, even our mis-understood humour, so that we can be called to task by the PUBLIC.
I did not read all your opinions but will do so and reply later...
Amazing that I only find your blog now... I love the INTERNET ... it has some of apparent qualities of being multi- dimensioned even it is still "linear" (1-d) in structure and many stories can exist simultaneously... Looking forward to the "neuronal network" of the next generation of "memories".
On the claimed "Sufi origins" of Sahaj Marg, because of it's founder Babuji, having met Lalaaji, a real Sufi Master, a few times, and not being a preceptor in his organization during his lifetime, and 13 years later, after going to a few Satsangs with Dr Chaturbuj's group (Yogabyas or Ramashram), he founded and registered Sahaj Marg and the Shri Ram Chandra Mission, and became the first Master of the Sahaj Marg Mission. He said that the inspiration came from Lalaaji on the "inside" (vision? dream?
I brought the info to Elodie's blog, Christian and Alexis jumped on it and did some preliminary research, as did Elodie. Michael added his comments and experience and knowledge. We did receive some additional information from some "old abhysasis" who came and went and I can't remember them all.
The info was compiled in French by Alexis who put it on Elodie's blog, and it was translated by 4d-Don and entered on the "Our World From Another Dimension" blog, and the Sahaj Marg Project blogs.
I think my part of the "expose" has been useful but Alexis carried the ball for many years before all of us and he is the one who fed us the first info and concerns around Sahaj Marg and the SRCM Mission in Europe. He deserves all the Credit for the original research and the future compilation of the information...
I dont understand the other message about "signing a document" ... I was not privy to that or involved in it...
I don't know anything about what "Navneet" is doing or his reasons for doing it. I just gather information and record it and give my OPINIONS that is all... the READERS can take it or leave it... I have done my DUTY and hopefully, other such GROUPS will take heed of the changing societal POWER base. We the common "joes" are not silent or "silence-able" anymore... We have joined the GAME... Deal with it...
I appreciate your comments and praise you for taking the time to "participate"...
Our new DEMOCRACIES (Power to the Participants), will be DIRECT, BINDING, DYNAMIC (votes will be change-able for a limited period of time), and with WEIGHTED VOTES (1-5 as in "American Idol" ;-)) ). It will also include "NONE OF THE ABOVE"(NOTA), and ABSTAIN, (as in a "corporation" and politics) on the ballot hence. It will thus be a "multi-dimensional" voting system, as oppose to "linear" (1-d) as it is now.
4 comments:
To Fight for Right and its members:
Why did you stop "Justice Should Be For All , Not Only for Media Dri... " on 16 of May 2006?
For the sake of the (Tell me) truth (India) I will put my comment here.
If there is a problem with the server, please, correct it and put the comment in the proper place. Thank you.
THE COMMENT:
To 4d-don and all
4d-don,
in answer to your comment of 14th of May:
4d...“One of the main reasons con-men succeed is that once taken, the "mark" (victim) is ashamed to admit that he/she was taken in. The first step to healing and becoming free again is to admit that one has been taken in.”
To me this statement of you includes the meaning, that you assume that the writer of the comment you (sometimes) relate to is necessarly an abhyasi of SRCM. Or what is the good of general - unrelated - statements?
Of course all people have to share your personal opinion not only of the organization, its members ect, but of everthing in what YOU BELIEVE.
Very black and white: the good bloggers (http://4d-don.blogspot.com et. al.) and the bad SRCM, P. R. ect.
Very “spiritual”, too, if the world is divided in saviours à la 4d-don and Shashwat on one side and sheep which need their help on the other side....
4d...Then, one can "expose" the con-men or women (in Sahaj Marg) and warn help others not get "sucked in",
YOU state that it is a fact, that SRCM is a negative (!) cult (It is well-known, that Christianity was a cult in its beginning, too).
The question is, if this is YOUR OPINION or if it is a fact. As long as you say “It is MY opinion...” or “It is MY experience...” you are free to do so.
I would suggest you allow the reader to make his/her own conclusions. But it seems you think you take it for granted that YOU are the only thinking person, YOU KNOW (even) the truth, others dont’t know anything at all. At least the members of SRCM are all manipulated “victims“. Well, you are generous enough to suppose that they are at least able to recognize their situation.
4d...“...and those are the "truly spiritual" people, the Saviours of their people, the Messiahs of the Masses.”
If you hold Shashwat for a truly spiritual person, a saviour of people, a Messiah of the Masses, it is YOUR very personal OPINION. I for myself have to say I can’t agree with this. For my opinion he is neither a compassionate person, nor able of logical thinking.
For your attention I repeat two sayings of Shashwat, your saviour:
“Without love Shashwat/pls note, i cannot love everyone, till i have learned to love those who love me , if i say love then i m fooling, and i don't want to fool people coz i don't want to be fooled either.”
And:
“According to Chari's Sahaj Marg, divinity that all cult members look for is becoming similar to their master, Chari claims that Babuji is his master, at the same time, he is not similar to Babuji in the sense that he is not able to talk to ghosts as babuji use to do, hence he is not same as babuji, therefore he is not a master of Sahaj Marg linage, this exposes another lie of this group. !!”
4d...“The average person, once saved, goes on his/her merry way and is not concerned about his/her neighbour.”
What is the use of your speaking about “average people” in general (if there is something like ‘average people’ at all) ect. ? I think it would be more useful, if you tried to refer with your writings to the comment. Again: You know the person who wrote the comment? You know (by one comment on the net) that this person goes on his/her way and isn’t concerned about his/her neigbour?
It seems to me you hold only yourself, Shashwat and a few others for intelligent and comitted people. You may be committed, but it is your arrogance which makes you believe others are not.
4d...“That is not the case with Shashwat, once he realized the "con game", he did not merely go on with his life but shouldered the task and the "duty" of warning the ones who come behind him.“
For me this isn’t a warning it is agitation. The substance of it is very questionable. (The behaviour of Shashwat and his way of speech are not questionable. - Everybody can see his manners and his loving and brotherly attitude in the net, especially on his own blog.)
4d...”That is the person I want to be "behind" on the highway of life so that I can trust that if there is a danger on the road (fallen tree, rock, hole etc..) that this person will not simply avoid the danger and not stop to warn me. “
I was reminded of the example of an accident. A person who comes for help - or for warning the following people - is of much use, if he/she acts with consideration, wíth a level-headed assessment of the situation and the ability to calme the situation for the sake of true aid (research, constructive criticism ect.). If the person behaves (like Shashwat) without any selfcontrol he/she is not only without any use for others, but endangers not only himself/herself, but the whole matter (and in this way others, too).
4d...I wish the world was that "noble" and if that is a "sickness" then I wish it on all
of us”
If you hold Shashwat’s actions for noble ones, it is your personal opinion. If you wish it on you, you are free to do so. But, please, leave the decision to others if they really wish this sickness on them.
4d...“But I believe that that sort of caring about one's neighbour is the Brotherly Love that Sahaj Marg talks about but does not deliver.
As a matter of fact, Sahaj Marg would try and stop this HERO from carying out his duty and his destiny.”
Do you speak out of experiences? Or do you speak from hersay. For example from a 14-years-abhyasi Shashwat? I agree with you, that it seems, that the brotherly love, that Sahaj Marg talks about, it does not deliver: If I see the “brotherly love” of a person named Shashwat and take it as a result of 14 years practice in SRCM you are truely right.
Shashwat ,YOUR HERO.
4d...“Maybe it's time for the "meditators" to get up of their butts and stop gazing at their navels and see the state of the Real World, specially the real Organization that they support and see how "divided" it really is.”
Please, relate to the comment (see above).
4d...“Sprituality UNITE, Religion DIVIDES”
This is your personal opinion. I don’t agree with it. I know (religious and “other”) people who even don’t have an idea about the meaning of the word “spirituality” who always try to “unite”, and I know so-called spiritual people who are not very “uniting”.
Concerning you, you yourself must know to what you want to belong.
4d...“What happens after insults...”
....everybody can see it on this and (some other) blog(s)...
4d...“...and the threats of lawsuits and "worse", is it WAR? or CRIMINALITY? We now know that SRCM is capable of such "tactics" but is it "SPIRITUALITY" or is it really just "SPIRITUALISM"?
I can’t see the relation to the comment.
4d... ”...IS Sahaj Marg really a modified Raja Yoga? How modified? We know of the Yamas and the tapas being eliminated. We can tell by the level of intellect in Sahaj Marg adherents that the MIND is not "controlled" so it must be another YOGA and not RAJA! We can tell by the level of arrogance and ignorance that Spirit is still a "slave to the desires" as they so foolishly repeat every day.
(see above)
4d... “NO WONDER they are so HEALTHY and UNITED! NOT!!”
There could be a constructive dialogue........ But of course, if the others are sheep, victims ect. - Who is worthy enough to talk to you, 4d-don? ....
(Before I read your comment) I thought not to forget to let Elodie know how grateful I am to her for her publication of the material of the Sufi origin of SRCM (Or who did the research on the origin of SRCM?). Stating facts. DOING ones duty. Very in silence. (The fighting came with others (men).) In my opinion the recognition is hers.
4d-don, I am sorry to say it, in my opinion you yourself don’t serve the cause for which you took up the job.
And I am able of understanding people who think it is wasting time to be part of this “discussion” and therefore leave the scene.
Finally - Where has Navneet gone? Answering only questions he appreciates, believing it serves his purpose, is nothing.
The purpose of this comment: I don’t want to leave the scene without expressing my disgust about what I saw and experienced here.
IM MY OPINION ORIGINALLY POSITIVE EFFORTS FAILED MISERABLY. I ASK EVERYBODY TO THINK ABOUT THE REASONS.
To "Fight for Right", this means the persons Richa Kapoor, Ajayarana, Puneet Wadhwa, Varun Chowdry, Akash Jain:
You all together signed the article "Justice Should Be For All, Not Only for Media Driven Society" on this blog.
There is only one more article you did the same (signing "Fight for right").
The other articles however were signed by one member of your group (one by one).
Strangely enough the only article which seems to be of any interest of the public is the article "Justice...".
You started your blog on december 23, 2006. Since january 7, 2007 or rather since the beginning of january 2007 there were no more articles put by you on the net. Are there no more "difficult" cases now at the Indian Courts?
The article, in question I complained the blogger not working, is now working again.
For my opinion this blog in general is a very dubious one.
If you like to answer my comment for dispelling my reservations I would be glad.
Hi anonymous...
I just found your "blog" and chuckled...
Good for you to challenge my words... You somehow missed my "humour" and my "tongue in cheek", specially with the "Master" statement linked to Shashwat... lol ;-))... I think Shashwat is very brave to do what he does in the manner he does, and that is now recorded... It is our safety to speak all our thoughts, even our mis-understood humour, so that we can be called to task by the PUBLIC.
I did not read all your opinions but will do so and reply later...
Amazing that I only find your blog now... I love the INTERNET ... it has some of apparent qualities of being multi- dimensioned even it is still "linear" (1-d) in structure and many stories can exist simultaneously... Looking forward to the "neuronal network" of the next generation of "memories".
4d-don...
Hi Anonymous...
I have nothing to add to most of your "opinions".
On the claimed "Sufi origins" of Sahaj Marg, because of it's founder Babuji, having met Lalaaji, a real Sufi Master, a few times, and not being a preceptor in his organization during his lifetime, and 13 years later, after going to a few Satsangs with Dr Chaturbuj's group (Yogabyas or Ramashram), he founded and registered Sahaj Marg and the Shri Ram Chandra Mission, and became the first Master of the Sahaj Marg Mission. He said that the inspiration came from Lalaaji on the "inside" (vision? dream?
I brought the info to Elodie's blog, Christian and Alexis jumped on it and did some preliminary research, as did Elodie. Michael added his comments and experience and knowledge. We did receive some additional information from some "old abhysasis" who came and went and I can't remember them all.
The info was compiled in French by Alexis who put it on Elodie's blog, and it was translated by 4d-Don and entered on the "Our World From Another Dimension" blog, and the Sahaj Marg Project blogs.
I think my part of the "expose" has been useful but Alexis carried the ball for many years before all of us and he is the one who fed us the first info and concerns around Sahaj Marg and the SRCM Mission in Europe. He deserves all the Credit for the original research and the future compilation of the information...
I dont understand the other message about "signing a document" ... I was not privy to that or involved in it...
I don't know anything about what "Navneet" is doing or his reasons for doing it. I just gather information and record it and give my OPINIONS that is all... the READERS can take it or leave it... I have done my DUTY and hopefully, other such GROUPS will take heed of the changing societal POWER base. We the common "joes" are not silent or "silence-able" anymore... We have joined the GAME... Deal with it...
I appreciate your comments and praise you for taking the time to "participate"...
Our new DEMOCRACIES (Power to the Participants), will be DIRECT, BINDING, DYNAMIC (votes will be change-able for a limited period of time), and with WEIGHTED VOTES (1-5 as in "American Idol" ;-)) ). It will also include "NONE OF THE ABOVE"(NOTA), and ABSTAIN, (as in a "corporation" and politics) on the ballot hence. It will thus be a "multi-dimensional" voting system, as oppose to "linear" (1-d) as it is now.
Keep it up... Eventually, we will get it right!!
4d-Don...
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